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Post by Firefox on Mar 13, 2013 11:31:34 GMT
Price is irrelevant up to a point. It's culture which is important. Look at the number of people on low incomes shelling out £7.00 for 20 fags. If it was £15.00 they'd do the same. Only when you start putting the price up to £50 and £100 will it make any difference, and then they'd be turning to the black market. The same with any drugs; if they are either made illegal or priced off the controlled market it simply stimulates the black market.
Only by changing culture can one make any difference. All this argument over whether it should be 45p, 50p, 60p, or £1.00 a unit is a sham
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Post by robmac on Mar 13, 2013 12:57:53 GMT
I would ban the sale of alcohol completely except from pubs!
And then get pubs to bring back the good old off-sales.
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Post by Pollik on Mar 13, 2013 12:59:46 GMT
I agree with you.
I think culture is affected by many things, but I suspect that a pattern of alchohol abuse is fuelled by the degree of contentment within the culture. The unhappier the country, the greater the alchohol abuse (subject to extremes of pricing). Whether that unhappiness comes from spending half a year in darkness, from economic inequality or from authoritarian government...that is where I would start looking for alchohol and drug problems. Oh, and media influence...that plays a role, too.
This is interesting, though...I might have to rethink my ideas about root causes.
The arguing about minimum price for units of alcohol is sham...and directed at the poor, who it affects disproportionately. Can't see the Bullingdon Club paying much attention to the price
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Post by Firefox on Mar 13, 2013 13:49:37 GMT
Interesting view about pubs, Rob. It would certainly help the licenced trade and stop the decline of British pubs and pub closures. I'd be prepared to support that, if the pubs were open long hours for off sales, Even 24/7 like the supermarkets for sale of booze and fags.
But if the access hours were too restricted, I think again it would stimulate the black market which would give criminal groups the chance to compete for taxation revenues.
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Post by Daz on Mar 13, 2013 15:03:40 GMT
I think it's a waste of time, it wont really affect the price in the pubs, alcoholics will get the money together however they can, regardless of price, similar to druggies, all it will do, in my opinion, is raise the crime level & punish people on a lower wage who enjoy a glass or two of wine.
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Post by tommy on Mar 13, 2013 15:49:56 GMT
culture is important. I must have been in thousands of homes these last ten years and as far as I saw, the majority drink far too much judging by whats on show and the empty bottles in the bin, whatever their wage. I remain shocked that the uk is a nation of "in excess" and cant aim their drinking manner towards moderation as other european countries do - I suppose the same could be said about eating in the UK !! Drop the prices and the alcoholics will die off !!
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Post by robmac on Mar 13, 2013 16:14:15 GMT
Until there is a real deterrant to crime (hard labour, bread and water) then no measures will really stop underground practises, however there are too many dogooders to ever get this to happen.
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Post by Daz on Mar 13, 2013 17:06:05 GMT
Until there is a real deterrant to crime (hard labour, bread and water) then no measures will really stop underground practises, however there are too many dogooders to ever get this to happen. Totally agree, punishment should be just that, not HMP 5 star hotel with TV, xbox etc
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Post by Lee & Linda on Mar 13, 2013 17:31:10 GMT
Our government have the idea that by increasing the price (by taxing it) of anything that is "so Called" bad for us we will stop using/consuming it. Surely if you look at the price of fuel, cigarettes, Booze you can see that it doesn't work we still buy them, now are the government that stupid they can't see this or is it a good way of raising more tax and also telling us that they do care about our health and they are trying their best to help us. Politics arghhhh.
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Post by Firefox on Mar 13, 2013 17:50:19 GMT
I agree that prison should not be a soft touch but it must focus on rehabilitation. If one just punishes they do the same again when they get out and cost us more money.
In terms of deterrent, I reckon the best deterrent for organised crime is to make it unprofitable. This involves bringing things like prostitution, drugs, alcohol, and tobacco under state control. Charge enough to generate revenue but not so much as to give the black economy a chance
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Post by derekfaeberwick on Mar 13, 2013 18:54:55 GMT
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Post by robmac on Mar 13, 2013 20:14:33 GMT
I didn't realise you were a WC addict! Most of it is arguing though between 2 or 3 people at the moment.
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Post by Pollik on Mar 13, 2013 21:46:46 GMT
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