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Post by daisymini on Apr 7, 2013 15:41:33 GMT
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Post by Etienne Le Croq on Apr 7, 2013 16:52:35 GMT
Nice work Daisy! What's the problem with your gas?
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 7, 2013 17:45:51 GMT
Does your insurers not require you to have a gas certificate on the installation? I fitted a short flexible pipe from the regulator to a 4way valve, from there hard piped to cooker,fridge,boiler and one spare. Clipping the pipe every so often as nec., the gas lad gave me all the advice regards vents etc that i req'd, then when all was done he came back ( i did get him two vans across road to do yrly and for repairs) charged me £50 to ensure all was good and issued a cert.
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Post by Etienne Le Croq on Apr 7, 2013 18:05:52 GMT
I didn't need a certificate for mine,insured with Flux.
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Post by n brown on Apr 7, 2013 20:37:54 GMT
what regs? I don't know of any regs,and don't see what use a certificate is in a bouncy vibrating vehicle.
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Post by n brown on Apr 7, 2013 20:47:19 GMT
my attitude to gas fitting is to do it as safely and sensibly as possible,to me that meanshaving a drop out hole within 8-10 inches of any joint.to make sure each joint can be accessed for periodic checking and can be tightened if necessary.if this means cutting an access hole and cover in the side of a cupboard,just do it,any flexi pipe is the orange reinforced stuff and all clips are tight,and if they strip,replace them.fridges are obviously vented to outside and cookers at least have some nearby ventilation.
the more people ask insurance companies about gas regs and rules,the more they'll come up with. a gas certificate is like an mot ,only any good on day of issue
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 12, 2013 19:59:04 GMT
Bit of an aggressive attitude there n.brown, you ask what regs?, drop outs ,flexi hoses, compartments etc , are these made upor are they the regulations for all? Vans should have soundness tests to ensure theres no gas leaks, my insurers .......enterprise.....require gas certificate for the soundness test. I'm a qualified plumber of over 25 yrs, i can do a soundness test etc but i can't issue a cert. this is why i asked about certs and insurers, if an incident occurs we all know insurers will do what they can to get out of paying. For £50 you get a safegas eng. to come out and inspect the work and test for least of all soundness of mind, if a problem then occurs its his/her name on the cert.
Regards asking insurers about certs, i was informed by mine that theres murmurings about gas certs AND electrical certs for all in time to come.
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Post by Etienne Le Croq on Apr 12, 2013 21:37:21 GMT
I have to agree with Nigel,its a case of using the right materials and checking for leaks properly.You need to have a gas ticket for static caravans ,but not for campers and touring caravans.As for paying £50 to someone for what you can do yourself with a can of leak detection spray,why My insurance company (Adrian Flux) gave me a year to convert the van to meet the DVLA criteria,windows,table,bed,water tank etc.They haven't asked for a gas or 240v certificate.I fitted an underslung tank using 8mm sleeved copper pipe through out,drop out holes under the water heater and cooker and checked for leaks with the leak spray that came with the kit.Also have the most important thing ,a carbon monoxide alam.
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 12, 2013 22:55:24 GMT
I did'nt say you could'nt fit it all yourself, yes with common sense its doable , yes maybe a cert is futile , but first the question was what regs? The regs are laid out for all to see, you (or i hope you have) have adhered to those regs for your own safety. The reason iasked about the insurers asking for a cert was because mine do, wasn 't aware others did not. Regards fitting your own gas, go ahead and do it it, if you feel 100% about not having cert'd fine, but in the event of the insurers not paying out because of a technicality well thats down to you.
If you fitted someone elses gas in their van and something happened who isresponsible? I'm more than competent to fit all types of gas, household and vans inc. oil, i would be more than happy to fit it on the provision that it was commisioned and certified by a qualified person , thats for my peace of mind and that of the person i'm doing it for.
Daisymini had concerns that work was done properly regards her insurance .
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Post by Firefox on Apr 12, 2013 23:38:31 GMT
Looking good Daisy, I can't wait to see it in the flesh, you have done such a lot to it since I saw it last time
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Post by Etienne Le Croq on Apr 13, 2013 8:02:37 GMT
I understand what your saying Chap,I think that it was just your luck with that insurance company.The question pops up from time to time on the Sbmcc ,but not very often as most don't require one. I agree that if someone fits their own system and is worried or not too confident on safety ,then they should get it checked out.
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Post by n brown on Apr 13, 2013 15:28:23 GMT
aggressive ? maybe a bit strong,or maybe i'm a bit aware of what happened through another forum,where people who obviously didn't think there were enough rules demande that DVLA come up with a more definitve list of rules and regs for self builders,now they're moaning about how hard it is to get a V5 changed to camper ! if enough people make enough waves we'll have to get the gas done by a gassafe guy,and the240v by a sparks and 12v by a qualified vehicle electrician, which would effectively have stopped a lot of people trying to make themselves a cheap camper. this would have suited some people as there were suggestions that there should be enforceable standards of appearance for self builds,as the scruffy ones were making the nice ones look bad ! it was only a few years ago that the insurance companies wanted to invalidate claims if your vehicle hadn't been regularly serviced by a recognised garage,any self repairs voided the claim
all of this is great for people who have money for new campers but not so great for some young family guy who can't afford holidays but might be capable of doing up an old van,or anyone who's a bit skint no apologies for ranting.
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 13, 2013 21:36:13 GMT
I asked the initial question ' do your insurers not require you to have a gas cert'? As mine does and assumed all did, i certainly did'nt go asking about one .
Did these 'people' demand the dvla write a list of rules and regs to make it harder for self- builders or tomake it more clearer and straight forward for folk to do them?
How many people out there 'think' they are competent at gas,electrics,diy etc, we've all seen the results of some of these people, in my old trade i saw plenty of so called qualified and competent people turn out crap and some dangerous.
Regards standards of appearance, i agree to a certain degree but that goes for all vehicles.
Again servicing, many folk 'think'they cancarry out jobs on their vehicles and end up with a dangerous vehicle.
I don't know how old you are but i have never come across the servicing point and i've held motorbike, car and hgv licences for 34 yrs, i would however say in the event of an accident etc the slightest thing they could blame you for to not pay out or reduce the pay out for an ill looked after vehicle and quite rightly.
If you advise daisymini or go help with the install of gas or electrics and the van sets fire etc who is responsible ? You the 'competent' person or daisymini for listening/ trusting a 'competent' person.
Its not a case of if but when thorough testing of self-builds and motorhomes will come in for insurance companies, this won't be because of folk making'waves' but insurers protecting themselves like they do in households.
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Post by n brown on Apr 13, 2013 22:05:23 GMT
on that basis i'll never advise anybody again.if I advise a certain way of fixing a cupboard to a wall and it falls on somebody i'd never forgive myself.you're right i'm wrong.it's not worth the risk
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Post by WindDancer on Apr 13, 2013 22:35:44 GMT
Looking good daisymini, how exciting to see it evolve
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Post by lotusanne on Apr 13, 2013 22:53:07 GMT
I think it is very much a case of knowing your limitations. I would certainly worr/y about Daisy mini taking advice from someone who didnt know what they are talking about, or people doing their own conversions who don't have the required skills/knowledge as there are lots of safety issues to consider in conveting a van. But someone like Nbrown has been converting vans for a lifetime and has lods of experince and expetise, and also offered loads of helpful and useful advice on this and other forums so I would have no hesitation in trusting his advice... Same for Vernon, I would totally trust his opinion. But certanly couldnt say that about eveyrone - there a lo of so called experts abou who don't heistate to give their someitmes unfounded opinions!
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Post by lotusanne on Apr 13, 2013 22:54:09 GMT
ps sorry about typing!
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Post by Firefox on Apr 14, 2013 0:01:17 GMT
Life is a risk isn't it... getting out of bed, crossing the road.
If we go on a forum we take a risk of following advice. Even from guys who have done things 100 times before. If we get it "professionally" done we take a risk the fitter had an off day, or it works loose on the road there's a leak and then an explosion.
I fitted up all my gas in rubber with jubilee clips for added security. I reckoned that was less of a risk from fire than me trying to get olive joints gas tight which I tried on another conversion with only partial success. That's not to say I'm totally happy and I'll probably cross nbrown's or Tony's palm with silver for them to replace it for me in copper if either wants to take on the challenge at some stage in the future!
However, I'm 100% confident that the advice given by everyone here is honest and correct to the best of their knowledge. If you take it, you'll likely reap the rewards because there is a lot of accumulated experience here, but taking it is just a similar risk as when you entrust your repair or conversion to whoever, and that risk must ultimately be down to the owner.
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Post by daisymini on Apr 14, 2013 9:32:34 GMT
This seems to have stirred up a bit of controversy!!! Firstly Nigel dont ever stop giving out advice we couldnt and never would have attempted to do the conversion in the first place without people like you and Vernon with experience and knowledge. Secondly, I take advice and then I choose whether to use it or not! If i feel that the gas installation is not safe then i will not hesitate to call a gas service engineer to check it for me, but having to work on a tight budget i could never afford to have it installed professionally along with the electrics etc, In doing the install ourselves we also gain the knowledge and know how everything works and where everything is for future reference should there ever be a problem. As for the insurance companies i wasnt sure if they required a cert i just assumed they might. I havent had the van re classified as yet by the dvla so my van is insured as a "van with windows" at the moment.
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 14, 2013 9:49:41 GMT
There is a lot of experience as vernon has said, self -building is a great past time / cheap holidays,, myself have indulged for the last 6yrs in self-building, following and advising, mainly though on the use of waste veg oil and ldv's. If it wasn't for folk like n.brown/vernon giving free advice /help then it would be a costly hobby.
But once again i asked the initial question of certs assumiing all require them, i did'nt ask the insurers if i needed one albeit i would have had it done by the lad giving me the advice, but thats my choice.
N.brown may have been doing self-builds a long time but when questioning regs, whats regs? I have to wonder, they are there for your safety. If he wishes to sulk because i give alternative answers to his statements get on with it.
You can all do what you want and yes life is a risk but why add to it?
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Post by herbenny on Apr 14, 2013 10:12:38 GMT
Sue I admire so much what you took on and I remember your initial posts when you first got the van and your worries and excitement all rolled into one. I cant wait to see the van and all your hard work. We will be taking on a conversion soon ...I cant say whether it will be the later part of this year or next at the moment. We had three lots of transport on the road we have now downsized to two and eventually we want one van as a means for all our needs it will be our camper, work car, and family run around. We have not got the first idea on a conversion so like you say its great there are so many on here and other forums that have the skills and knowledge who happily share with us. I hope I get to see you and your van at a meet this year. well done you ...ps would love to see more pics
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Post by Oldish Hippy on Apr 14, 2013 10:31:38 GMT
Sue I admire so much what you took on and I remember your initial posts when you first got the van and your worries and excitement all rolled into one. I cant wait to see the van and all your hard work. We will be taking on a conversion soon ...I cant say whether it will be the later part of this year or next at the moment. We had three lots of transport on the road we have now downsized to two and eventually we want one van as a means for all our needs it will be our camper, work car, and family run around. We have not got the first idea on a conversion so like you say its great there are so many on here and other forums that have the skills and knowledge who happily share with us. I hope I get to see you and your van at a meet this year. well done you ...ps would love to see more pics Well what isuggest is talking to mr brown and arraging to pop in and see him and no doubt he will answer any question you have and knowing nigel he will have a project on the goand will enlighten you in the art of building your own and will impart a font of knowledge in your direction and will know doubt say if you stuck give me a shout and he will do his best tohelp a knowledgeable person to know
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Post by n brown on Apr 14, 2013 11:48:58 GMT
cheers OH i'll drop that fiver round later
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Post by Oldish Hippy on Apr 14, 2013 14:58:32 GMT
cheers OH i'll drop that fiver round later No need Nigel i speak as ifind people and say it doesnt matter to me if they dont like it at least i am being honest and that is more important to me than anything else
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Post by daisymini on Apr 14, 2013 16:05:38 GMT
It might not seem alot but overhead locker door done (that was a nightmare to fit hinges due to fibreglass construction!!) Drawer fronts done and drawers sorted and a big clean up so we have room to move.. Tomorrow ...is fitting rest of doors on drawer side (when i get the right hinges..lol) fitting the work top and tiling it then thats the gas cupboard part finished..! Then for the kitchen side...ARGGGHHH testing of appliances and gas connections fingers crossed all goes well if not will have to call the professionals...
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Post by n brown on Apr 14, 2013 16:53:12 GMT
lookin excellent mate ! I like the doors and drawer fronts,can't quite make out what you did over thecab,i seem to remember it was quite big,but full of stuff
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 14, 2013 18:12:52 GMT
Very nice work dm .
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Post by Etienne Le Croq on Apr 14, 2013 19:55:27 GMT
Loverly job Daisy,keep up the good work .
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Post by Firefox on Apr 14, 2013 20:01:19 GMT
Well done! You will have really added to the value of your vehicle as well.
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Post by lotusanne on Apr 14, 2013 22:06:20 GMT
Ooooo looking great Sue, really like it and cant wait to see it, you must be dead chuffed. I have been involved in some conversions in the past and I know how frustrating it can be, but you have really broken the back of this now, bet you cant wait to get it on the road! xx
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