|
Post by seanrua on Sept 3, 2013 13:16:18 GMT
Ok, here's the job: I'm going to clamp together two parallel timbers with nuts and bolts. The spacing between the timbers is 7 inches. I need only about four bolts, BUT, because it will work out cheaper, I intend to use Continuous Threaded Bar ( Readybar?) cut to length and with a nut at each end. The moosh in the works will cut the bar to length for me, but, what I'm unsure about is will I be able to start the nuts from each end, OR, will the cutting make the thread unusable from one end ? Sounds daft, I know, but will I have to spin on the nuts to the correct interval postions first before cutting? I remember one time we were on a drilling rig and they brought out some "continuous thread" steels. We were supposed to be able to cut or join on wherever we wanted. In practice, it was a right cock -up, and we couldn't achieve what we wanted. The more I think about thread, the more confused I get. I know 'tis basically a wedge acting on a wedge, but I'd rather not buy a lot of unusable tat because of some basic avoidable mistake. Talk about much ado about nothing! Still, a thousand words on here is cheap, compared to paying somebody to mess up brand new steel. sean rua.
|
|
|
Post by billi on Sept 3, 2013 13:40:23 GMT
i would put the nuts on 1st if possible! u know it will go wrong if u dont. cant u just use squeeze clamps?
|
|
|
Post by Firefox on Sept 3, 2013 13:40:44 GMT
You can cut through the thread and sometimes use it, but if you are unlucky, and the nuts don't spin on immediately the thread may be blinded by a burr from the saw. If you examine the end of the bar, you should be able to see how the thread has been closed off. A quick bit of work with a triangular file should clear it. Run the file point up the thread to find where the saw burr has closed it and open the thread to the outside world. You should be looking to maintain the pitch and a thread pathway right to the end. File out the burr to achieve this. It's quick, and you only need to do one end on each bar, as you can spin both nuts on from that end.
|
|
|
Post by robmac on Sept 3, 2013 15:07:37 GMT
Vernon's right although you will need good eyes!
Usually though a nut will tap itself onto a spoiled thread without too much trouble providing it is only the end thread affected.
|
|
|
Post by brewkit on Sept 3, 2013 15:46:51 GMT
put the nuts on first, cut the threaded bar, file the cut ends to remove burrs, undo nuts, thread should be clear
|
|
|
Post by n brown on Sept 3, 2013 16:13:44 GMT
the best way I found is to cut a nut across into 2 pieces,clamp them onto the bar ,just by the cut, with mole grips, and turn it off the end .I came up with this while putting up a suspended shelf above a bar and getting sick of spinning the nuts to the middle of a metre length
|
|
|
Post by ross on Sept 3, 2013 16:45:01 GMT
put the nuts on first, cut the threaded bar, file the cut ends to remove burrs, undo nuts, thread should be clear I'm with brewkitt on this one. Exactly the way I've done it in the past before & it's always worked. Tend to use a bit of 3:1 oil to help lubricate, and ease the nut off slowly with a half turn forward, half turn back, etc. Alternatively (& if you've lots to do) you could buy / borrow the right size die & cut a small length of thread onto each end of a solid round section ordinary bar. Then paint / varnish for rust treatment if not s/s finish.
|
|
|
Post by X on Sept 3, 2013 17:33:39 GMT
Have used miles of this stuff and never really had any problems . Normally wizz the end off a bit on a bench grinder or angle grinder to ,as often end is exposed so serves 3 purposes is aesthetically better, and prevents injury on sharp ends also seems to allow nut to go on first time ! Just remember the end gets rather hot as have picked it up to use several times and nearly had to think of a bad word !
|
|
|
Post by seanrua on Sept 3, 2013 17:47:54 GMT
Thank you so much, everybody, for the helpful replies! It seems my question wasn't as silly as I thought, and, anyway, I don't mind asking silly questions BEFORE I do things that may be really stupid.
I think what I'll do is throw the onus onto the guy cutting and selling the bar. I'll put my concerns to him before he cuts anything and let him sort it out. Crafty old bggr, am I not?
n.brown:
I'm intrigued by that cutting the nut idea. Could you run it by me again as i didn't grasp it properly?
Actually, this is only a small job that uses almost all recycled materials. No I haven't pinched any £30 grand caravan and need to bar up the window! It's much more basic and simple than that. I don't think I'll need more than four of these made-up "bolts". Aesthetics don't matter; just cheap, efficient and effective, if possible.
Bill: It's going to be a bit more permanent than squeeze clamps, and this thing is going to be clattering around the streets of Great Britain. I don't want Sir David reading about this and laughing his airjacks off about it! 'Tis bad enough being dimwitted and poor, without that added embarrassment.
sean rua.
|
|
|
Post by seanrua on Sept 3, 2013 17:56:14 GMT
Basildog,
Yep, thanks for that. Trouble is, all I have left are hand tools, as I gave all my kit to my son who's miles away.
Only one end of the bolt, (ie one of the nuts and a bit of thread)will be visible. The lump hammer will have to take the sharpness off that, I regret to say. Bet I'm the first one to get a nasty snag or cut! 'Twould serve me right, but, if it is a problem, I could always timber over it and cover up a multitude of sins. Thank uck timber is relatively soft. Probably get a nasty splinter, now I've said that.
sean rua.
|
|
|
Post by n brown on Sept 3, 2013 19:00:55 GMT
my method was devised on a job where I didn't have a grinder.if you know what a die looks like as in tap and die, it's basically a split nut,but hardened.if you cut a nut right through the centre of the central hole,then put the 2 halves onto the cut end of the bar and clamp lightly [mole grips] you have a crude but effective die with which to clean up the thread.you can also,by grinding a slot along the thread of a bolt,you can use the bolt as a tap to clean up internal threads
|
|
|
Post by seanrua on Sept 3, 2013 21:29:41 GMT
Ah, I'm with you now, n.brown. That's a good way to clean up the threads. Thank you!
Actually, as one end will, in effect, correspond to the fixed head of a bolt, I only need bother about having good threads at one end per section.
I feel I've got my head round the job now. That guy in the workshop won't know what hit him.
sean rua.
|
|
|
Post by seanrua on Sept 4, 2013 12:50:32 GMT
Well, one thing I've learned this morning is that it would have been easier to use several pieces rather than one large solid block for the packing pieces in the bressemer! My old brace and bit was red hot with all the drilling in preparation for the bolts. If this project ever goes into mass production, I'll send all the timber to the workshop for pre-drilling!
Still, nothing a cup of tea can't put right.
Btw, I may have to be on my way again. If so, 'twas nice chatting to ye ( with one obvious exception). Mind you, even AJAX seems to have managed to upset the gang now. He's desperately trying to promote his military credentials, though there's hardly a soul on that place right now (14.45).
Anyway, all the very best to all! I'm away to get the threaded bar, and, if that doesn't work, 'twill be the high-stool at a different sort of bar for me.
sean rua.
|
|
|
Post by seanrua on Sept 4, 2013 13:00:12 GMT
|
|
|
Post by X on Sept 4, 2013 13:13:41 GMT
Go get your bar you old git ! Would be sad to lose you in my opinion ! I think you really add to the forum
|
|
|
Post by seanrua on Sept 4, 2013 16:19:02 GMT
You were absolutely right about the threaded bar, Basildog. It was a piece of P! The guy used a reciprocating hacksaw ( up and down thing) and just followed the groove with a rotation twist. Every nut went on sweet as a, erm, nut.
I had to twist every bar through the holes in the wood with a spanner, but I guess this means it wasn't too loose. So far the timber work has been the hardest. NO worries. I'll carry on with it tomorrow. Time to fire up the old rocket stove for a bit of scran.
sean rua.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2013 22:54:40 GMT
Good to see you posting here Sean, I always find your posts interesting and sometimes thought provoking. Have learned something useful from this thread, thank you.
But I would like to know what a "moosh" is. Or should I not ask?
Hope the trip is worthwhile, come back soon and tell us about it.
|
|
|
Post by X on Sept 4, 2013 23:11:56 GMT
|
|
|
Post by seanrua on Sept 5, 2013 7:08:59 GMT
Hi FWF!
"Moosh" or "mush" is "man" or "mate", as in Australia or London. They say it stems from the French "m'sieur" or "mister", which I suppose was " my sir" one time.
I haven't read Basildog's link yet, but it is now a Romanichal word used from Kent to Yarkshire by travelling folk. In SE England, the country folk/gorgers use it, too. Though a lot of the jib is interchangeable with Hindi or other north Indian languages, the Indians don't seem to know this one. I've often tried it out on the markets around Wolverhampton and Birmingham.
Our lot use a different word altogether, but we ain't allowed to tell others what it is! Sorry about that, but, anyway, in GB, "moosh" serves better.
sean rua.
|
|
|
Post by seanrua on Sept 5, 2013 7:33:50 GMT
Bas, Right I've read the link now, and, as so often in life, there is a divergence of opinion. I think myself, that the top answer is a bit wrong: what they're on about there is, imo, the word "Mukker" ( alright, mukker?) which has come from the Irish : " mo chara" = my friend. -- The bloke on about Pompey is also a bit muddled, I'd say. What happened down around Cosham and Waterlooville is that there were so many travellers that the sailors ( many of them press-ganged in olden times) used the old lingo. A bit like in Sarf Landun, really ( Kent). Well, even that's a bit out of date, as a lot of Cosham lads lives around Epsom now. Btw, "Kushti" IS a Hindi word ( good).. The Indians know that one, as do the Roma. Try it on them flowers sellers in the pub! Basically, it just shows that language and people move about and pick up bits and pieces off each other. Everything is fluid or in a state of flux. This works well until we get "isolationists" who live in one box and come around in a self-contained, hermetically-sealed satellite/sputnik ( I ain't allowed to mention the dreaded "I" word) shooting of stuff into the ether about how terrible everybody else is, etc, etc. OK, our lot like to live separate too, but we used to do it pretty quietly, except on fair days, until this phenomenon occurred. We minded our business and the local residents minded theirs. Something changed. Some folk intruded. Anyway, time for a song before the rockets fly: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J17R5EFAv0and another www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOfkpu6749w&feature=player_embeddedand something else www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXlx04fBCggall the best! Kushti Bokh! sean rua.
|
|