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Post by n brown on Aug 25, 2013 21:46:44 GMT
just seen it on sbmcc, cops,warden and camera crew knocking on your door
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Post by kangooroo on Aug 25, 2013 21:53:39 GMT
I hope not because I camp there most weeks!
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Post by Firefox on Aug 26, 2013 11:19:39 GMT
just seen it on sbmcc, cops,warden and camera crew knocking on your door I'm surprised cops are getting involved. Unless it's a gathering of more than 5 vans and other circumstances like criminal damage or abuse which would come under aggrevated trespass via the criminal justice act.
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Post by robmac on Aug 26, 2013 11:35:16 GMT
Quote from another forum (hope that's allowed!).
A report into Tackling Wildcamping /Caravaning /Tenting was released over the weekend in South Wales. Some of the best Known Gower Peninsular beauty spots are to be protected from such activities with a clampdown on any illegal Camping. Three Cliffs Horton and Port Eynon are the worst affected on the Gower. Landowners, Police and Gower rangers are to patrol The Gower Area and remove any persons or Vehicle’s that are camping or parked illegally. A spokesman stated that they have been forced into this action due to the irresponsible behaviour of the campers leaving behind toilet waste and litter. So if you want to stay on the Gower ,Be warned use a car park or Site. Or you could land up with a £60 fixed penalty. It appears the landowners and residents of the Gower have had enough but it as to say most of the illegal camping is by Tenters. Other local authorities are also looking at this Problem. The Brecon Beacons also as a similar problem. Councillors are of the opinion, we give people permission to open camp sites and because they state there is a call for them. Then we get these so called campers on a Freebie who abuse our country side and the costs of cleaning it up out ways the benefits and money generated locally. There is a general feeling that people who wild camp do not not contribute to the local economy they bring in all their needs with them. So once again a Minority kills it off.
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Post by n brown on Aug 26, 2013 11:37:01 GMT
a few more details- the guy said he slept at ystradfelte and was woken by cop warden and camera crew,[whatever that means],had his reg taken and given a warning.on his way home ,he says,he noticed cops bothering motorhomes and tents.he thinks it may be to do with campers leaving rubbish. he has a self build and is based in wales. not enough by any means to stop me going over there when I want,but I will be ready.maybe the warden asked the cops to come '' in case there's a breach of the peace ''
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Post by n brown on Aug 26, 2013 11:39:08 GMT
just seen Rob's post and all I can say is bugger !
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Post by kangooroo on Aug 26, 2013 12:47:31 GMT
I can understand this on the Gower because it does get crowded and I've seen people pitch tents and park campers in the most inappropriate areas then leave behind piles of litter. It's been a problem in Pennard too on the NT-owned land so any campers there are promptly moved on. Those areas are also notorious for rowdy parties and further west along the coast are the trouble spots.
I'm surprised at Ystradfellte, where I've camped myself in one of the two likely spots probably referred to. Possibly it's been getting to the stage where there are multiple campers and it's being (ab)used on a regular basis. I've always had the area to myself, haven't been seen and would avoid it if there were other campers. Possibly the residents who overlook the area being used are objecting?
I never camp July-August during the peak season so hope that this quietens down. It won't stop me camping in the Beacons and I doubt the vans will find me in my usual spots which are inaccessible to anything much larger than a typical car, but no doubt time will tell.
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Post by Pollik on Aug 26, 2013 14:22:01 GMT
This is not good.
Promoting bad faith between campers, residents and authority. Some misconceptions in the quotes and, critically, what law would any charges come under?
As far as I am aware, wild camping is not illegal in the UK nationally, although there may well be some bylaws...but if those bylaws are not posted, then how the heck do people know it exists?
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Post by robmac on Aug 26, 2013 16:28:54 GMT
This is not good. Promoting bad faith between campers, residents and authority. Some misconceptions in the quotes and, critically, what law would any charges come under? As far as I am aware, wild camping is not illegal in the UK nationally, although there may well be some bylaws...but if those bylaws are not posted, then how the heck do people know it exists? I suppose it comes down to the land being camped on, if privately owned then you need the permission of the landowner to camp otherwise it is trespass. I have never camped there so I don't know whether it is obvious or not as to which is privately owned land and which is not.
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Post by Pollik on Aug 26, 2013 18:00:03 GMT
Trespass is a civil offence which doesn't involve the police...
If they are going in mob handed, they should, at the very least, tell the "offenders" what the potential charge would be.
There is a lot more about this that I would want to know before forming a judgement, but on past experience, I have little reason to trust either LAs or the police in this kind of situation. I think the detail is important.
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Post by robmac on Aug 26, 2013 19:06:34 GMT
the other problem I foresee is that if you start arguing the point with the police they can become very difficult. They can soon start to look at your motorhome and find a fault with it! A policeman once told me that he could get a team of mechanics taking my car to bits at the roadside until they found a fault. That was a few years back though!
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Post by Firefox on Aug 26, 2013 19:18:13 GMT
Trespass is a civil offence which doesn't involve the police... Not if it falls under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/33/part/VIt has to be two or more people and using threatening behaviour/language/criminal damage or six or more vehicles present between them. This is a good reason to limit wild camping convoys to 5 vehicles.
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Post by kangooroo on Aug 26, 2013 19:24:22 GMT
I think it's better to avoid attracting attention in the first place.
If 5 vans suddenly turned up and parked outside someone's home and caused a nuisance, regardless of any trespass laws etc, it isn't courteous or considerate to the residents. I wouldn't be happy about it and this may well be what's happened eg at Ystradfellte.
Far better to park somewhere alone and discreet and cause no nuisance to anyone. Just my opinion, the way I do things and the reason I avoid parking in a group...
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Post by Firefox on Aug 26, 2013 19:32:58 GMT
I wouldn't do convoy parking near residents. But one can park somewhere discreet without necessarily being alone... there is a difference.
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Post by Pollik on Aug 27, 2013 10:54:48 GMT
Ah, yes, good point about public order legislation. Information is still rather sparse though...did all the instances qualify under that piece of legislation?
Or was it intimidation, pure and simple? Stories of police making late night visits to known activists, just checking everything is OK. My daughter had a visit, "We are coming to arrest you on Tuesday." (They didn't.) Pre-emptive arrests ahead of royal wedding, release without charge. Inflicting unnecessary pain on peaceful protesters.
Having said all that, I agree with both Karen and Vernon about general consideration for local residents and that includes not leaving a mess (take your litter with you, bury your toilet).
Apparently, there was another clamp down in the Gower about 5 years ago, on illegal holiday parking. It feels like the LA is not interested in tourism.
What do people feel about wild camping (the tent variety) in the UK? I get the feeling that with so many festivals and protest camps around these days that more people are getting used to it...add that to general financial constrains and hey presto, a boom in wild tenting.
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Post by Firefox on Aug 27, 2013 11:22:18 GMT
Festivals are generally organised with fields set aside for camping.
Protest camps are still should be legitimate form of action. Two recent ones are the Badger Cull camps and the camps set up to protest against fracking.
Wilding in tents should be given the same status as in Scotland.
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Post by kangooroo on Aug 27, 2013 11:51:03 GMT
There seemed to be a lot of wild-tenting over the BH weekend. I was out at Symonds Yat and in the Forest of Dean following various paths. While deep in the forest and on/near the riverbank at SYE, I spotted several small back-packer type tents discreetly tucked away and largely out of sight. Some campers were clearly walkers and others were cycle-touring. I'm sure I wasn't the only person to spot them but they were being quiet, considerate, no litter and I'm sure that any official would simply turn a blind eye to them.
IMO this is very different to a highly visible gathering of vans in a very public or residential area and I can quite understand why locals object to this.
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Post by Pollik on Aug 27, 2013 13:31:32 GMT
No, the point I was trying to make was that people are increasingly exposed to spending a few nights roughing it in a tent, which would maybe make wild camping more attractive/doable. "We spent a few nights in a popup at Nozstock, a couple of nights on the Mumbles might be a fun weekend away...and cheap". Nothing more than that.
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Post by Firefox on Aug 27, 2013 15:13:30 GMT
Oh yes the pop-up tent has a lot to answer for! Easy to put up. More tricky to put away!
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Post by Pollik on Aug 27, 2013 18:12:47 GMT
I am puzzled.
The aim of this action is warn off "illegal" wild campers? So why can I find nothing about in any of the local press?
Something doesn't feel right...a bit like the story of MHers suffering sleeping gas attacks in Europe.
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Post by Firefox on Aug 27, 2013 18:25:27 GMT
Good point. There seems little evidence/provenance of the story so far apart from a post on another forum. And reports of "camera crew"/"cops". No indication of why the Criminal Justice (trespass) act of 1994 has been enforced. It seems a little suspicious at the moment.
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Post by kangooroo on Aug 27, 2013 19:16:56 GMT
Good point. There seems little evidence/provenance of the story so far apart from a post on another forum. And reports of "camera crew"/"cops". No indication of why the Criminal Justice (trespass) act of 1994 has been enforced. It seems a little suspicious at the moment. I'll be heading over to the Beacons as soon as I can - maybe next week and I'll keep my eyes open (and wits about me). I could fully understand this happening around the Gower where vehicles cram into a smaller area closer to residential areas and could well cause a nuisance. I'm more doubtful re the Beacons unless prominent groups have been gathering in specific areas. I've been wildcamping there almost weekly for years and never had a spot of bother, although it would also be a challenge for any officials to actually find me!
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