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Post by Firefox on Apr 20, 2013 12:34:34 GMT
At the Greywell meet today someone threw a long sharp stick for Neo. Unfortunately it stuck in the ground and he impaled himself in the throat trying grab hold of it. Quite a bit of blood and he had to go to the vets. Luckily I don't think it has punctured anything vital and after some sedatives he seems OKish.
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Post by robmac on Apr 20, 2013 12:40:38 GMT
What a shame. Hope Neo is ok, bet it scared Karen and Charlie to death.
What a freak accident!
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Post by kangooroo on Apr 20, 2013 12:45:12 GMT
That sounds potentially nasty. Hope Neo is OK.
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Post by Firefox on Apr 20, 2013 13:56:49 GMT
He was trotting around with the other dogs recently. A bit shell shocked I think but seems all right at the moment. Those collies are tough... most of us would layed out for a couple of days at least after that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2013 12:21:05 GMT
Neo was lucky, imagine if they'd been out for a walk in the middle of nowhere and they had to try to carry him back to a vehicle before then going to a vet.
ALL STICKS ARE POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS FOR DOGS, NOT JUST SHARP ONES.
You can't distinguish between a dangerous stick and a non-dangerous stick so don't throw any.
I have never thrown sticks for Rigg and always discouraged others from doing so, but because he enjoys playing fetch, he will bring anything throwable for throwing - plastic bottles, sticks etc. Unfortunately this habit has been reinforced by other people who, without my knowledge, have thrown sticks for Rigg, which psychologically rewards the dog for the behaviour. When I've asked them not to for the above reason, people have dismissed my fears or made a fuss about me making a fuss.
Rigg enjoys finding and fetching sticks so instead of throwing them, I tell him to go and find a stick and fetch it. In this way, there is not nearly 30 kg of solid body weight which could impale itself on a stick - he will have a good mooch around and find and fetch a stick without hurling himself after something which is being thrown. In this way, not only does it occupy him, but you end up with a pile of firewood too.
To all non-dog owners, please please ask the owner before throwing anything for a dog. An excitable breed like a collie will literally kill itself to retrieve (remember the beer advert of the guy throwing a ball for a terrier in a high rise flat and the ball followed by the terrier went out of the window?) - it is the working instinct which takes over.
If you really must throw something for a dog (and a dog like Rigg or Neo is hard to resist) please try to find a plastic pop bottle or milk carton. Dogs love the noise they make, they are much safer, and pose virtually no threat to a collie sized dog, although PLEASE REMOVE THE LID. But the best thing is to ask the owner if the dog has a throwing toy and if it is ok to throw something for the dog. I now have to sometimes put Rigg in his cage in the van for his own good as he would literally run and play until his pads are bleeding or he drops dead. Although he is fit and active, as a 10 year old dog, he would be of retirement age if he were human, and his heart, muscles, joints etc will not be as good as they were 5 years ago, so he has to have a rest for his own good. Please help me, and Rigg, by respecting that.
Please also try not to encourage a dog to jump up at you for a fuss - by giving it a fuss you are encouraging that behaviour and the dog cannot distinguish between a dog loving person wearing waterproofs and outdoor kit and a pregnant woman, or an elderly infirm person or someone in their Sunday best. It is the dog who ends up being in trouble but it's only doing what it has been inadvertently trained to do. Rigg never jumps up at me as I have never allowed it but he still, after 10 years of me trying to stop him, will do it to other people and it is so frustrating and annoying to have someone tell you that they don't mind, they are a dog person. If they really were a dog person, they would understand that they should help the owner by not encouraging the dog to do this. If you want to fuss the dog, go down to it's level, don't expect it to come up to yours. But ALWAYS check with the owner first, some dogs will not tolerate close contact.
And whilst I'm at it, the same with treats. Rigg has never been allowed anything edible other than 1 meal a day and food treats during training sessions. Until the past year or so, I have never had any problems with him during human meal times as he has never seen them as his feeding time. But good habits are slipping and people want to interact with him and food is an easy way to do it, and so during barbeques, outdoor meals etc he is starting to show signs of food begging ie watching fixedly until the person gives in and gives him something to eat, usually off their plate - what they are actually doing is rewarding the begging behaviour and encouraging it. And Rigg is the one who will miss out in the long run as he will have to be put away in the van whenever food is around if it continuess. In the same way that people should always ask a parent before giving sweets to a child (the child may have a food allergy, or teeth problems or any other valid reason), people should always ask a dog owner before giving any form of food to a dog. And in my opinion, a dog should never be given anything - whether its attention, food, toys or any other form of treat without earning it first.
So please help responsible dog owners like myself to ensure that our dogs are civilised, sociable, and do not become a nuisance. It's much harder for us to undo bad habits than it is to teach a dog good habits.
I hope Neo is ok, an incident like this in an older dog could have had tragic consequences.
Sorry for the rant but it's an important subject and non-dog owners need to be aware of some of the pitfalls which are not always obvious but which can have a massive impact.
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 21, 2013 17:35:21 GMT
This is one of those freak accidents that occur unfortunately but fortunately neo is safe and well. I'm 50, i've had dogs all my life , i know of hundreds of dogs and there are 10's of 1000's across the uk that day in day out run for sticks or through woods etc that don't have accidents, so this response is of a knee jerk response.
Regards the rest of what you say , rigg is trated differently in ways to my two, they don't have to earn treats, if they want to eat food given to them they can, the only thing i state is no fine bones. If they do sit and stare one word they move away.if people want to encourage them to jump up but they don't jump up mainly because thats the way they are. If folk want to stroke the dogs, if the dogs approach they vcan stoke them but i do state not to put there face near the westie.
If a dog is a working dog like a hunting dog, blind dog etc yes they should't be ad hoc pampered only by the owner, but most dogs are pampered pets.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2013 18:07:17 GMT
Sorry if you think it is a knee jerk reaction. I know of too many dogs that have been injured this way. If it happened to Rigg with someone throwing a stick against my wishes or without my knowledge, try to imagine the position I'd find myself in - distressed about the injury, the practical difficulties and the financial implications, and also very very angry and unsure what to say to the person who had caused the accident. I hope nobody will ever put me in this position.
I've had dogs all my life too (apart from approx 7 years during early adulthood) and yes, we threw sticks for many of them. And some of them came back with bleeding teeth, gums etc. Fortunately no serious injuries. But when I weigh up what's more important to me - my dog's safety or what other people think of me, I'm afraid the dog's safety wins.
And I'm really sad that after weeks of not posting and only yesterday starting to make a couple of posts, I have already suffered name calling and disrespect, especially from a friend. I might sometimes think that of other people and I know plenty of people who post on forums who could genuinely be accused of knee jerk reactions, but I wouldn't do it because of how it might make that person feel. It's just not a very nice thing to read for the person being attacked. And that's exactly why I stopped posting, and will now probably stop again. There's simply no point in being attacked for expressing an opinion. I will happily debate but will never put people down publicly. It achieves nothing except argument, upset, frustration and anger.
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 21, 2013 18:28:48 GMT
No- one called you names it was purely my opinion in the same way your post was yours Neither was i in any way being disrespectful and i cannot see how you would read my post that way Your post was about your dog , mine was about my two dogs How could you possibly see an opinion which differs from yours as a personal attack or argument?
At the end of the day i'm just happy Neo wasn't seriously hurt or worse by what can onlybe described (as i've already stated) as a freak and uncommon accident!!!
Regards the rest of the post we will agree we have different ways of training/treating our own dogs none of which are the wrong way!!!
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Post by Firefox on Apr 21, 2013 19:54:34 GMT
I can report that Neo was OK today. I think he's still a little sore, but he's back to his usual self The vet who treated Neo pointed out some safe stick toys like this one: So if sticks is the thing your dog really loves, it may help to have one of these around, just in case someone who doesn't know throws a wooden one. I don't think the dangers of sticks are that well known among general animal lovers or even among many dog owners, because you will often see sticks being thrown in the park for dogs. I also remember they are not allowed to chase stones either because they can chomp them and crack their teeth. Neo is always bringing stones to you too, if he can find them, he's a terror! Hopefully this thread will inform people at the meets about what could happen with sticks or stones.
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 21, 2013 19:58:33 GMT
............. Can break my bones but names will never hurt me Lol
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Post by Rubbertramp on Apr 21, 2013 20:00:39 GMT
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Post by tommy on Apr 22, 2013 15:40:40 GMT
we paid £60 for our dog from the dogs home, saw a program warning of "stick danger" the week before. Took him out that first day and hey ho a stick landed upright in the wet grass ... Seemed like slow motion as he ran towards it and managed to damage all the roof of his mouth and land us with a £40 vets bill.
I guess we were just irresponsible and failed to learn from others mistakes.
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Post by Firefox on Apr 22, 2013 15:49:53 GMT
I think Neo's vet bill was £65. For that she did put her hand down his throat to check out the damage and gave him some antibiotics and sedatives. It's a dear process
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 22, 2013 18:12:02 GMT
It is a dear game vernon, vet wanted £47 for ourdog when had a stroke bout 6 week ago, a cartridge was £2 and i got the money back from food saved that day ;p
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Post by X on Apr 22, 2013 18:57:25 GMT
Not the end of the story yet I am afraid as Neo been back to the vets today as he been coughing and gagging a lot today ! He booked in tomorrow for an anaesthetic and having blood tests first as an old dog . They are going to have a good look down his throat to see any damage he may have done hopefully just irritating him as it heals but I guess best to have it done ! The stupid old git still wants to play though !
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Post by n8rbos on Apr 22, 2013 19:08:40 GMT
Lets ope the odebuggas ok, its possible as you say its just irritating him ( lets hope thats all it is.)
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Post by lotusanne on Apr 22, 2013 20:01:31 GMT
Oh no, poor Neo, I hope he is OK, and poor Charlie and Karen, they must be so worried, hope to hear some good news about him soon
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Post by Firefox on Apr 23, 2013 0:42:27 GMT
Fingers crossed for Neo. One of my fave camping dogs along with Rigg, Mia, and Caoimhe.
I had cats for 20 years until recently, Tony, and I was stung big time on vets bills for a while, especially on regular medications for one of my cats. £30, £40, or £50 regularly for tablets costing just a few pence. They only saw the cat for about 5 minutes too; it was a licence to print money.
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Post by kangooroo on Apr 23, 2013 3:05:08 GMT
True - vet bills can be exhorbitant.
It's about £40 for a consultation in the vets I use and I know from drug-reps who supply surgeries, many drugs have mark-ups of over 500% and there can be a huge variation between surgeries too.
A 50ml bottle of Metacam (widely-used anti-inflammatory) costs about £28 but I'm charged at £2/ml, metoclopramide costing 2p/10mg pill can be charged at 30-50p each, vaccines which cost £9 are recharged at £53 to give just a few examples. Vets have overheads but some margins really cannot be justified.
Luckily I can treat most non-surgical conditions myself but buying the meds is horrendously expensive.
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Post by Firefox on Apr 23, 2013 10:17:50 GMT
The other thing I sense about vets is there is very little comeback if they are negligent or make basic mistakes. Doctors or nurses are under a lot of scrutiny if the patient dies, but with vets it's like "Oh sorry your dog didn't make it through the op but that's still £350 you owe us". I'm not saying they are negligent, I'm sure vets love animals and do everything they can for the most part, just that the accountability is not the same as with humans.
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Post by WindDancer on Apr 23, 2013 11:21:42 GMT
Sending lots of healing thoughts to Neo. Hope all goes well and he copes well with the procedure.
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Post by Lee & Linda on Apr 23, 2013 12:16:31 GMT
I do hope Neo is okay, I am feeling worse than ever for throwing that damn stick.....
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Post by Firefox on Apr 23, 2013 13:28:38 GMT
Don't blame yourself Linda, I've thrown sticks for dogs many times when I didn't know Sorry for my rant about vets. I have been feeling a bit down the last few days and I think I just got caught by a particularly sharp practice vet - most of them are probably really cool. If we all think positive vibes for Neo, I'm sure it will help him
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Post by lotusanne on Apr 24, 2013 7:01:42 GMT
I do hope Neo is okay, I am feeling worse than ever for throwing that damn stick..... Linda, you are bound to be feeling awful , anyone would, but really it was a freakish accident, you were obviously trying to entertain the dog, who could have predicted that? I throw sticks for my dog to retrieve, she has hours of fun with it and loads of exercise, and she will spend hours sniffing them out of the undergrowth, its amazing how she they can find a stick that you may have touched for 2 secs what a sense of smell. To be honest I will continue to throw sticks for Mia, I have tried other toys but they invariably get lost, whereas theres an endelss supply of sticks. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on these matters and don't want to be contraversial butI dont think it makes me a bad dog owner, I personally think the benefits outweigh the risks and there are risks in many things , you cant protect your animals or your chuildren from everything. But I do feel for you, lets just hope there is some good news soon on Neo
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Post by robmac on Apr 24, 2013 17:54:15 GMT
Nowt but a freak accident Linda. I've often thrown sticks for Neo.
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Post by X on Apr 24, 2013 19:43:47 GMT
The old git seems to be fine ! We decided against having him put under general anaesthetic as he seemed to be fine the next day and at his age it seemed unfair ! The vet even said it was quite high risk at his age so we let nature deal with it I guess . karen took the old git for a gentle walk today without his ball and guess what he comes back with a ball!
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Post by lotusanne on Apr 24, 2013 20:12:26 GMT
Thats good news Basildog, hope poor Linda can stop feeling so bad now
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Post by Lee & Linda on Apr 24, 2013 20:20:30 GMT
Good to hear that neo is getting better. Thanks for kind your words,
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Post by Firefox on Apr 26, 2013 23:32:41 GMT
Charlie phoned me tonight and said Neo is really back to his old self now. Not coughing at all and doing all the usual things... pestering for walks and things to be thrown!
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Post by Lee & Linda on Apr 29, 2013 15:29:42 GMT
great news, definitely no more stick throwing in the future!
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