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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 22:39:42 GMT
Thanks for posting, its made me smile, so glad Elliot has got a wonderful home.
I have a 9 year old (doesn't act his age, still more like 9 months than 9 years) collie cross lab cross staffie who is the love of my life (www.rigg-the-pig.com) and who is the most loyal, faithful, loving male I've ever met, and I'm very privileged to be his owner. Although he is a git of a food thief but I wouldn't change him.
Before him I had 2 collies, the first should have been a worker but the farmers didn't want him cos he was white, I made so many mistakes with him and he taught me so much and I still miss him terribly though it's over 4 years since he died. The second was another farm collie but she was well bred and I trained her for sheep but when I moved I gave her back to the farmer I got her from as I didn't have access to sheep and she needed to work. She has since gone on to win at National Sheepdog trials. A tiny little bitch with a BIG attitude who always had to have the last word and who most definitely was in charge of the 2 male dogs (I had all 3 for a couple of years - life was never dull!).
Am very impressed with your map btw, the only thing that's missing is Showers - I've started my own google map of where to find a shower - sports centres, camp sites I've been able to sneak onto on foot, B&Bs where I've scrounged a shower in return for a charity donation etc.
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Post by kangooroo on Feb 13, 2013 23:47:30 GMT
Am very impressed with your map btw, the only thing that's missing is Showers - I've started my own google map of where to find a shower - sports centres, camp sites I've been able to sneak onto on foot, B&Bs where I've scrounged a shower in return for a charity donation etc. I think a shower map is a very good idea. At the moment, they're the only reason I need to use campsites occasionally so alternative sources would be great!
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Post by Firefox on Feb 14, 2013 6:32:56 GMT
Freya - Colliewobbles Beer Wonderful dogs; I think she has her eye on some beer!
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Post by Etienne Le Croq on Feb 14, 2013 8:00:38 GMT
Nice pictures!
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Post by Firefox on Feb 14, 2013 8:05:46 GMT
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Post by Firefox on Feb 14, 2013 11:21:47 GMT
Leisure centres, motorway services, and any place which caters for lorry drivers is a good bet.
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Post by Pollik on Feb 14, 2013 12:46:40 GMT
I hate you.
I had border collies for twenty years and I miss them.
Great pictures, though...brings back many memories, especially the pics of them sitting in the driving seat and running on the beach. Sigh
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 13:38:18 GMT
I can't imagine life without a collie (or collie cross) - they are wonderful dogs if owners understand and meet their needs. I wouldn't go off wilding without Rigg, he is my companion, my security and my hot water bottle (and my waste disposal for food scraps :-) ) Without him I wouldn't have spent some wonderful hours on beaches, up mountains, and I wouldn't have met some other great dogs and owners who have become good friends, and I wouldn't be as patient, tolerant, and appreciative or physically fit.
It's lovely to see wonderful photos of dogs and owners really enjoying life together.
Pollik, feel free to borrow Rigg any time, just make sure you lock up your fridge and food cupboard! :-)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 13:43:23 GMT
Fantastic photo, shows the dog at its very best, just how a dog should be, enjoying life to the full. Nomad, do you know what Elliot is crossed with? He looks very collie, from the photos I wouldn't have known he was a cross.
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Post by Firefox on Feb 14, 2013 13:52:35 GMT
I was going to say the same thing! Though in the photo maybe slightly bigger than the average collie?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 14:22:52 GMT
Firefox, "real" border collies, aka working sheepdogs registered with the International Sheepdog Society (as opposed to the Kennel Club pedigree "show type" which have to conform to exact physical specifications in terms of colour, size etc) can come in all shapes, sizes and colours, because for working sheepdogs there is no physical specification, they are registered with the ISDS on the grounds of breeding from ISDS registered parents and / or on merit (ability to work sheep).
My second dog, Penny, was ISDS registered and had champion working sheepdog ancestry, but she would have been laughed out of the ring at Crufts as she was tiny for a collie (about the size of a whippet) - I jokingly said that the farmer had bred her from his Jack Russell - and there may well have been a bit of terrier in her background somewhere as accidents happen with farm dogs and also over the years, farmers have bred some non sheepdog genes into their sheepdogs to produce dogs which may be more suited to their needs, ie a smaller sheepdog may be better at working cattle as its more nimble and able to avoid kicking hooves etc, or is faster and able to catch a hare or rabbit, or might have more Terrier attitude to see off unwelcome visitors etc. So long as the sheepdog does its job, that's the important thing, the way it looks is irrelevant to a farmer, although farmers do say that sheep don't respect white dogs (although my first dog who was white could definitely shift sheep as he was very strong eyed and was a "hard" dog). And if the working sheepdog isn't registered with the ISDS through its parents, it can be registered if it meets certain performance criteria (ie registration on merit).
Also, though not common, it is possible for a single litter of pups to have 2 different sires if the bitch is mated by 2 different dogs at the crucial time, so litter mates may actually be half brother / sister rather than full siblings. If the farmer is not aware that this has happened (or even if he is aware!) the whole litter can be registered with the ISDS as the progeny of 2 registered parents only (instead of 3 parents!). And also farmers are not averse to bending the truth as an ISDS registered pup will sell for more than an unregistered pup.
What this means is that for border collies / working sheepdogs, 2 different strains are emerging, in the same way as has happened with Labradors, a "working type" which is often slightly smaller and leaner (though not always), but which has the traditional qualities required to do the job, and a "show type" which may look perfect (in the case of collies, it is usually black and white, with specific markings - white collar, white blaze, white tail tip etc, rough haired, within a certain size range) but it may have absolutely no working ability.
Sadly Crufts is purely and simply a competition based on looks and not working ability and in my opinion, this puts the working breeds at risk of having their working abiliity genes diluted in order to obtain the perfect looking dog.
Elliott's markings etc look to be classic collie whereas Freya, who has the papers, has more of a look of a working sheepdog rather than a classic Border Collie but it's hard to tell from the photos. Whilst Elliot does look to be a big dog, that's not unusual for a KC and ISDS registered dog, and often dogs do tend to be a little bigger than bitches, though not always.
Genetics - much more than the white and black rabbits I remember learning about at school! But fascinating if you have an interest in dog breeds.
I can't remember the exact number but something very high like 80 or 90% of all border collies have the genes of one particular collie dog named Whiston Cap in them, from about the early 1900s I think, who sired an incredible number of pups and is seen to be "the original sheepdog". The remaining 10 - 20 % probably have a few terrier, lurcher, and gun dog genes in them ;-D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 14:29:34 GMT
The strange thing is that despite Freya’s dominance at home, at the beach when playing with their footballs she always gives way to Elliott. Could that be learned behaviour from their human owners? ;D
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Post by daisymini on Feb 14, 2013 16:36:56 GMT
Heres a pic of my two...They are labradoodles, Mum Tilly is on the right and Bailey her pup is on the left. She had 12 pups just over a year ago, wasnt expecting that many!! 2 died but the rest are all fit and healthy and have loving homes. They are a lovely breed that love people, are very friendly and fussy but very flighty and easily distracted, Tilly has only just started to calm down and she is 4yrs. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 16:44:36 GMT
People have often questioned whether Rigg does have any Lab in him, and have insisted that he has German Shepherd genes, but I saw his mum who was definitely a staffie cross and I was pretty convinced she had Lab in her from her colouring and temperament. His dad was the local (smart) farm collie.
My first collie was a good swimmer and would happily swim fetch tennis balls etc but didn't really swim for pure enjoyment, only really to fetch things. The second (the little bitch) would avoid puddles, streams etc at all costs on walks, prancing around like a little girl with new shoes on who didn't want to get them dirty, although when she was working, she would run through water and mud without hesitation.
Rigg however will break ice to swim simply for the pure enjoyment of it, he is a very strong swimmer and will hurl himself into any water - it's a real pleasure to see him swimming around just because he enjoys it so much - proper Lab qualities. When we were kids, we had a Labrador who could smell water from miles away and once in water, he simply wouldn't get out of it. He had a good pedigree and had webbed feet, I think a Drakehead breeding line(?). Rigg is very much like that.
A friend of mine has a flat coat cross retriever and she is a lunatic - it's like she has springs on the bottom of her feet as she literally jumps straight up in the air like Zebedee. Flat coats are pretty lunatic anyway from what I've seen so I guess Elliott must have been pretty energetic when he was a youngster if he is a flat coat cross collie, and I bet he simply adores the beach, as in the photo.
Definitely more photos please, I do love seeing photos of happy dogs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 16:53:34 GMT
Daisy, lovely looking dogs, I wouldn't have guessed they were Labradoodles. I believe the Guide dogs are now training Labradoodles too especially for people with allergies.
Nomad, lovely pics. I'm guessing that in the first one that's E on the wall and F doing the classic sheepdog eye thing. Rigg loves snowballs too and it always makes me laugh as even at 9 years old, he still gets puzzled as to where they disappear to after he's caught them. How do you get on with the Halties? I tried a Haltie on my first collie but he just used to keep on pulling and walk with his head pulled to one side - it was a battle of wills between me and him for nearly 15 years and I'm not sure if I was ever the boss with him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 17:14:15 GMT
Orrest Head in the Lakes? I know it well, I was at St Annes Elleray Boarding School and most weekends we had a walk up there.
Love the topless pics, hence the goggles I presume.
I can see the difference between them in the Skye photo, E does look like there's something other than collie in him but I'd be hardpushed to tell what it is. But no matter, it's obviously a mutually beneficial relationship both for dogs and owners, as it should be.
Thanks for these pics, lovely to see them, Rigg would love to join in with their fun, praps one day the 3 of them might get to meet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 17:19:34 GMT
I could talk dogs, especially collies, all day long, but I've got nothing done this afternoon! Better try to catch up on some jobs.
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