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Post by robmac on Jan 8, 2015 11:17:51 GMT
6 Kg per month Vernon - full timing, sounds a little bit low? I hope you are right though!
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Post by Firefox on Jan 8, 2015 11:30:33 GMT
The bargain hunting thing is a trade off between leisure time available and what reductions you can get For example, I can hunt for bargain food in Tesco at 7-10 in the evenings because that fits in with my working hours. I couldn't forage for bargain bits of wood or donor caravans because I have to do other things during the day. I can't spend days on the phone getting the very cheapest insurance quotes. So everyone tells their own story in those respects. The other thing to consider is that leisure time has a value. Even conservative estimates put it at £3-5 an hour. So if one spends 7 hours bargain hunting, that's a cost of at least £30. The less leisure time one has, the more valuable it is, so it can effectively be much more than £30. All in all, a trade off depending on individual circumstance. As for gas - I don't tend to use much heating. I put more clothes on, it's cheaper! I also have a small van, and don't keep the fridge going all the time. I agree it is low though - a couple living in a coachbuilt may get through 2 or 3 times that
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Post by penny13 on Jan 8, 2015 12:54:14 GMT
The bargain hunting thing is a trade off between leisure time available and what reductions you can get For example, I can hunt for bargain food in Tesco at 7-10 in the evenings because that fits in with my working hours. I couldn't forage for bargain bits of wood or donor caravans because I have to do other things during the day. I can't spend days on the phone getting the very cheapest insurance quotes. So everyone tells their own story in those respects. The other thing to consider is that leisure time has a value. Even conservative estimates put it at £3-5 an hour. So if one spends 7 hours bargain hunting, that's a cost of at least £30. The less leisure time one has, the more valuable it is, so it can effectively be much more than £30. All in all, a trade off depending on individual circumstance. As for gas - I don't tend to use much heating. I put more clothes on, it's cheaper! I also have a small van, and don't keep the fridge going all the time. I agree it is low though - a couple living in a coachbuilt may get through 2 or 3 times that The fridge freezer in mine costs a fortune ! I find my diesel heating cheap but the cost of a replacement in the future will be devastating lol Someone once asked me how long I had worked to buy my coffee ! Put my wages into perspective It took me a whole day to get a good insurance quote and a lot of patience But full timing is cheaper than living in a house for me at the moment and my life better for it
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Post by X on Jan 8, 2015 13:10:19 GMT
We can use a 13 kg bottle in 3_days ! In summer it lasts a month or more ,that is not going silly with heating either just our pile of crap is poorly insulated I think ? As for heating costs best way is wood burner as can be free . we did 3 loads of washing cost 24 so a machine is a definite for us . Fridge to me is essential as cannot be doing with poncing around this is the 21st century . why they still fit cassette toilets in vans is beyond me too .
Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards
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Post by kangooroo on Jan 8, 2015 13:39:12 GMT
£9-12k per year to full-time *gulp* - it's cheaper to live in bricks and mortar (capital expenditure excepted).
My annual budget works out at:
* Dreaded council tax £900 * Utilities £800 * Water £150 Van insurance + breakdown £250 Road tax £225 MOT/servicing/repairs £250 Food & drink £780 * Broadband & phone £180 (no bargains when living out in the sticks) Annual 2-week Scotland trip £350 Misc (camping trips, local club memberships, clothes, luxuries etc) £300 Total - £4000 - a huge contrast to the lifestyles of others here!
* bills shared with husband based on pro-rata usage I also have 12 large-breed rabbits who are self-financing
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Post by Firefox on Jan 8, 2015 14:52:56 GMT
It isn't cheaper to live in bricks and mortar!!!! Bills, council tax, mortgages/rent, insurances, maintenance, and standing charges kill house living. In your figures, as you say, you didn't include for capital expenditure. This, expressed as either mortgage or rent, is a reality for most people. So your figure of £4000 can be increased by £600 per month rent/mortgage adding £7,200 giving £11,200 a year. Add a slightly more usual food budget and your costs would be £12 to 13k at least. The big difference between free van living and house living is depreciation/purchase of van versus mortgage/rent and standing charges, utility bills, plus council tax. Honestly it is no contest
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Post by kangooroo on Jan 8, 2015 16:37:01 GMT
True - and I deliberately stated I hadn't included the capital purchase outlay nor allowed for depreciation on a van.
If a van was purchased for £20k then after 20 years it's probably fully-depreciated (in most cases), but £100k spent on a small property is likely to experience significant capital growth over the same 20 years so the position isn't quite so clear cut.
There are advantages to both and I would be happy with either and may well full-time in the future. For now, however, practicality has to win and it's bricks and mortar for the time being, the cost of living in which (assuming mortgage paid off) is £4k per year. Full-timing in a van should be less if wild-camping without so many utility bills - but I don't think I could ever match your level of expenses!
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Post by Firefox on Jan 8, 2015 16:52:58 GMT
9k to 14k is reckoned to be typical for van living per year, judging by various accounts across the net. Check out the full timer's forums and other forum posts to gauge if you think that's right.
If one has a house as "support" to van living, there are significant advantages. Things like waste disposal, toilet disposal, laundry, food storage, freezer storage, general storage (clothes etc), washing, and showers can all be taken care of by the house. If on the road, things like storage, laundry and occ campsites for disposal or washing facilities may have to be paid for at a premium.
This could add up to £2,000 a year depending on one's personal requirements.
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Post by caz on Jan 9, 2015 0:50:44 GMT
Looking at those figures I'm not quite sure how I'm managing to cope with having a house and a van on my dinky pension - maybe one will have to go!
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Post by seanrua on Jan 9, 2015 11:18:52 GMT
Interesting stuff, imo!
For years we said " every caravan needs a shed." Sounds daft, but there's more than a grain of truth in it. In other words, storage is a major issue - especially with bulk buying.
I found the old house, though I rarely stay in it, costs an abslute fortune - even with no rent and no mortgage ( which I paid off in full - no inheritance or anything like that).
Even when left empty, Council Tax is a pig, and, with six months of winter, heating of some sort is required, imo.
Anyway, away from that and back on the road, I'm surprised by how little some of ye eat. ye must be all like whippets - in shape if not in appetite!
Perhaps bc I'm a meat-eater that I spend more?
I still think £10 a day would be hard to beat for me.
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Post by X on Jan 9, 2015 13:01:32 GMT
Yes very true Sean everything we look at lacks storage we have even been thinking caravan and van or camper ! Posted a thread on swifttalk soon got into trouble on there for being a freeloader and how steps were being taken to stop our sort !
Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards
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Post by Firefox on Jan 9, 2015 13:28:24 GMT
You could buy a piece of property like woodland or a lock up garage very cheap. Something that doesn't attract council tax or maintenance costs. Then store stuff there.
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Post by kangooroo on Jan 9, 2015 13:34:50 GMT
Interesting stuff, imo! Even when left empty, Council Tax is a pig, and, with six months of winter, heating of some sort is required, imo. We're in this position now having moved out in October and it's nowhere near ready for marketing. We're having to pay £2k council tax on it and keep the heating on to satisfy the insurance company who are charging over £500 for empty building cover. We only used to pay £85 for buildings and contents. (BTW Insurers generally stipulate a temperature of 17degC should be maintained - we didn't even have that high when living in it!). If full-timing and maintaining a property, council tax, insurance and continued utility bills would be an expensive consideration. Probably the only feasible option to maintain a property and full-time would be to let a house and allow £750 per month fund a very comfortable (mortgage-free) life. It is something we have considered...
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Post by Firefox on Jan 9, 2015 13:39:50 GMT
If you are not living there, they should give you a reduction on council tax?
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Post by kangooroo on Jan 9, 2015 13:52:52 GMT
If you are not living there, they should give you a reduction on council tax? No, full council tax is payable on vacant properties - since April last year.
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Post by X on Jan 9, 2015 14:44:40 GMT
It is up to the local authority but most now charge full and after 2 years of being empty they can charge a 50% surcharge on top too !
Sent from my Nexus 4 using proboards
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Post by penny13 on Jan 9, 2015 14:51:42 GMT
Looking at those figures I'm not quite sure how I'm managing to cope with having a house and a van on my dinky pension - maybe one will have to go! House Caz x
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Post by Firefox on Jan 9, 2015 15:27:02 GMT
House - or rent the house, and you can live a life of luxury in the van
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Post by caz on Jan 9, 2015 17:12:36 GMT
But if the house goes my children would be homeless! (And they don't have a van to live in )
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Post by n brown on Jan 9, 2015 17:14:58 GMT
very character building,homelessness
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Post by stonedaddy on Jan 9, 2015 17:29:26 GMT
But if the house goes my children would be homeless! (And they don't have a van to live in ) Make em join the army Kath .... They will get full board and free bullets .. .... Tom ....
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Post by caz on Jan 10, 2015 15:06:49 GMT
Make em join the army Kath .... They will get full board and free bullets .. .... Tom .... One is trying to! But they seem to be a bit fussy who they choose as cannon fodder!
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Post by seanrua on Jan 11, 2015 15:01:13 GMT
I'd be interested in the woodlands idea, but
a) we have to be careful about " Change of Use" etc. Councils are mostly bust rght now and are trying to grab every penny they can.
b) as soon as ye give your address, they're on the case. There's a "purpose" to all the paper-work, ie they want the paper-trail.
c) at Dale Farm/Oak Lane, we found that ownership is not the be-all an end-all. They told me that it would be "illegal" even to sleep out in a sleeping bag on land owned by nobody else.
Once I heard that, I realised we were ucked!
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Post by seanrua on Jan 11, 2015 15:05:38 GMT
ps one local anti-traveller defended this situation, saying that as she wasn't allowed to stay in her shepherds's hut near her livestock, why should we be allowed to stay on our land.
I replied that, imo, she should be allowed to stay in her hut. Then she came back with," Oh, the landlord wouldn't like that, and, nor would my husband".
What can ye say?
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Post by Firefox on Jan 11, 2015 15:19:29 GMT
You could store stuff in Woodland in a shed. I don't think that would attract attention as long as you weren't staying there.
As for sleeping on your own woodland it is true, you can't except for 28 days a year camping only. And sleeping on someone else's land without permission, you are right there too. But so long as you aren't causing any damage, they can't do anything except escort you to the boundary.
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Post by n brown on Jan 11, 2015 15:32:36 GMT
vagrancy laws still apply,''sleeping abroad'' and ''walking abroad'' are still illegal as far as i know. if a cop asks you to move on and later finds that you didn't, you're nicked-2 years conditional discharge P 26 www.thepavement.org.uk/pdfs/rights-guide.pdf
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Post by Firefox on Jan 11, 2015 19:40:20 GMT
vagrancy laws still apply,''sleeping abroad'' and ''walking abroad'' are still illegal as far as i know. if a cop asks you to move on and later finds that you didn't, you're nicked-2 years conditional discharge P 26 www.thepavement.org.uk/pdfs/rights-guide.pdfGood link - I think it is the same on private land if you don't move when asked. They may have to get a court order, but you can be done for obstructing an officer or possibly breach of the peace. If there's a group, it may come under criminal justice act 1994, that's another piece of nasty legislation.
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Post by kangooroo on Jan 11, 2015 22:25:23 GMT
You could store stuff in Woodland in a shed. I don't think that would attract attention as long as you weren't staying there. Items could be stored in a shed within woodland but planning permission might be needed for the shed and there is no security so it wouldn't be suitable for storing anything of value or which might deteriorate in damp conditions.
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Post by outtolunch on Jan 11, 2015 23:17:10 GMT
hidden and secure but not sure how damp it will be but seriously a buried container on a smaller scale would be more secure than a shed for securing a few tools
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Post by Firefox on Jan 12, 2015 11:22:10 GMT
^ Some of the American ones are equipped with air con, heating, and washing machines so you could keep stuff clean and dry too! I'm not sure where you can get all the power for those things in a long term survival exercise, but there are people with money to spend, and others willing to sell them whatever they want to buy
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